Name Droppings, Vouching, Vetting... Venting...

Cross-posted with FetLife for main location of comments and discussion.

It's been something I've wanted to talk about for a while now.  Now, this is not directly related to me, just more relevant to stories I've heard from friends, acquaintances, event organizers, etc. within the kink community.

Vetting, dropping a name of someone who "knows you," saying someone will vouch for you, what's it mean?  When is it valid?  When is it under false pretenses?  When is it meant genuinely, but something got miscommunicated?  And what's it look like to organizers, regardless?

Disclaimers: Questions throughout are rhetorical, feel free to respond if and how ya like, but I'm not asking you to make public comments of answers to questions I pose here.  And as always, everything here is from my own perspective, your mileage may vary, you may prioritize details differently from me, you may have different definitions, that's all cool!  Just discuss as mature adults, please.

What do I mean "dropping a name"?

A lot of kink groups or events need to know you can be trusted in some way, and one such way is to have someone vouch for you.  Name-dropping would be saying [Name] is a person who will vouch for you, in some capacity.  Think of it like a reference when job-hunting.

Ok, so what does it mean to vouch for someone?

Let's think about everything I talk about here from the perspective of someone who's been around for a while.  You're known, people trust you, trust your perspective, give you benefit of the doubt.  If you're new to kink and can't imagine it that way, then think in terms of any other group you've been in for a while: gaming, sports, some vanilla organization, general friend group.  With the kink community, it just has additional considerations that I'll outline in a moment.

To my perspective, when you're asked to vouch for someone in the kink scene, here's what comes to mind:  

• Do you have a decent feeling that they are likely trustworthy, non-predatory, non-stalkerish?  
• Does it feel like they'll respect boundaries and consent?  
• Do you feel like they likely have a decent(ish) head on their shoulders, won't readily bite off more than they can chew in one go?  
• Does it feel like they don't have an overinflated sense of their own capabilities?  
• Do you feel like, the day after a high-riding play party, when among vanilla friends that are strangers to you, will they keep pictures and/or names and/or specific events to themselves?  

Note that I'm talking about feeling here.  You won't know these things about someone, you can't guarantee any of it.  You may not have any reason to know their actual ability... vs. just enough knowledge to sound like they have a clue.  You may not recognize predatory behavior because they're not interested in you personally that way, or they're just that good at hiding their intentions.  You won't know if there are conditions in which they'll out people, i.e. getting considerably angry at someone and doing so in revenge.  Some of these things don't show themselves in any ugly way for months or years, so you won't know these things... which is why this is about how you feel about a person.

And how informed you feeling is.

So you do have a feeling, how informed is it?  Did you talk with them for a while?  Have you known them for some time before then?  Maybe you've seen them play or scene?  Or maybe you know them from vanilla circles?  Met them at a munch, talked for over an hour, and messaged some back-and-forth?  Took part in a roundtable discussion together, but minimal direct interaction?

None of that is either valid or invalid, it's all up to you on how ready you are to tell someone who trusts you... that this person can start to be trusted by others.  And it's up to the person who's checking with you as a reference to gauge how much stock they should put on your response in the given situation.

Let's look at a few examples...

The New Stranger

So you're hanging out, and someone new, let's name them "A" for reference purposes, reaches out to you or comes up to you, and you talk for the equivalent of a couple minutes, tops, i.e. at a munch

They seem halfway decent, you might want to chat with them in the future.  You know you don't really know much about them yet, but that's part of why you might want to get to know them later.

A few days to a week goes by, and someone that organizes a local group, who knows you decently, reaches out to you.  They tell you that "A" told them that you'd vouch for them.  

Let's also say that you had zero clue that they'd tell anyone you'd vouch for them at this point: they didn't ask, you didn't say you would.

So... do you vouch for "A"?  

Now, some people will say "Oh yeah, they seemed decent" and stop there, that's your choice if that fits you, and it's their choice on how much stock to put on that response or what else to ask.  "They seemed decent?  What do you know about them?" for instance.  

Others might feel that "A," the person they talked to for all of a few minutes one time a week ago and haven't learned anything new about since... is still a total stranger to them still.

So you tell the organizer exactly that.  You only chatted with them for a few minutes, don't really feel you know them.  You don't believe you indicated you'd vouch for them, and they didn't ask... maybe there was some misunderstanding?  What does that say about this organizer?  

• Name-dropped without consent  
• Overinflated sense of entitlement (i.e. entitled to use your name)  
• Lack of consideration for what the group's or event's rules/protocol are there for (if they require vetting by someone: there's reason for it)  

Nothing but yellow flags, at a minimum.  

They might tell "A" to try again after they've actually have met people... and even if they get to know folks, the organizer might have their eye on them for a lil while, given this first introduction they had was questionable.

Been around for a time, but in different circles

Okay, so this time, let's say "B" to keep to a theme, "B" has been in the kink scene for a little while to some capacity.  You had passing awareness of them, maybe via Fet, or via knowing a guy who knows a guy who knows them, but you don't really know anything much beyond what you see online.  Maybe they have a writing or two about some hard experiences, or maybe a couple statuses about being excited to be doing X, Y, or Z soon, but not much else you can remember about them online.

Similar as "A," they reach out and talk to you for a few minutes at a munch or similar, maybe 1-2 messages online.

Same occurs after that, days to a week goes by, friend reaches out to you asking if you vouch for "B" like they said you would.  Do you?

Maybe you do, they've been around for a time, you know they've been active to some degree, just not in your circle.  Perhaps at least one thing you've seen them write gives you a decent feel for them.

Maybe you don't, as you haven't had opportunity to get to know them during their time in the scene, and you only directly interacted with them for too short a time from your perspective to make any judgment call.  And, again, didn't discuss vouching for them in any capacity.

Heck, maybe one writing makes you feel good about them while another of their writings makes you feel like they're constantly filled with vitriol, and you don't know how to feel about them, so what you see online doesn't really tell you anything of value.

And it is up to the person who takes your response to decide accordingly or ask further questions.

Decent friend, new kink group/activity

The previous ones were a bit black-and-white, this one is more gray area perspective and thought-piece example.

Alright, well, now we have "C."  "C" is a alright friend... not "ride-or-die" friend, but you've known them for a lil while, they're alright, ya hang out with a group of the same friends, even if you personally don't hang out with them one-on-one.

You've seen them enjoy impact play, though you don't know how well they negotiate anything.  You've just not been there and listened to them negotiate, you don't play with them, you don't need to know about their capability to negotiate or recognize their limits, etc., so why would you?  Maybe they show great agency, maybe they say "oh I don't have any limits," maybe they act like they can take/do more than they say they can... and you wouldn't know.

So... let's take an example where a kink has its own community, and has its own skillset that "impact play" doesn't directly translate to: rope.

So "C" is newly interested in rope, and you've always been into rope in one capacity or another, so people in that scene know and trust you.  They're new to it as far as you're aware, so you've never seen them do jack-all with rope, bottom or top.

And now, a rope friend tells you that "C" said you're good friends, so of course they can handle themselves with rope like you, right?  Now... you don't know if this is something "C" said explicitly, or if it was some mere assumption on the rope friend's part, because that happens, too.

What do ya say? 
That yes, you're friends? 
That they're new to rope as far as you know? 
That they shouldn't just jump in head first?  

Alright, let's throw in some more perspective: You had no idea they were seeking out rope at all, and one of your rope friends suddenly reaches out and says "C" mentioned you when discussing rope with them, directly said you'd vouch for them with both rope and kink.

Again, what do you say?  Probably should be clear about what awareness you actually have of their skill level and familiarity with rope.  That you don't have any passing awareness of how well they negotiate, but you've not heard any bad things that way.  You get the idea.

But how do you personally feel that they're using your name to vouch for themselves in a kink circle you completely didn't expect?  

Welcome to gray areas!  I mean, it's a friend, they know you and you know them, right?  What does vouching for someone mean in this scenario?  That they know what they're doing with that kink, or that you think they're a halfway decent person and that's it?

So yeah, you'd probably just be clear with what you feel is important to vouch for (i.e. "decent human") and not vouch for (i.e. their lack of familiarity with rope) and let that person take your word for whatever they feel it's worth.

Do you get frustrated that they didn't ask you first, or do you understand and not give a shit because they're just friends and don't think they need to ask just to say a friend is a friend?  

If you're "C," can you be clear at just what your dropping their name means?  Maybe you should also double check if they're cool with you dropping in on a different friend group, maybe they like X friend group here and Y friend group there remaining mostly separate, ya never know.  Like I said, this example was more of a thought-piece.

So just what am I getting at here?

Consider how you name drop, if you name drop, why you name drop, when you name drop.  
I guess "what" and "where" you name drop, too, sure.

But, and this is a big one here, consider if they know you're going to use their name that way (i.e. if they give consent for you to do so).  Heck, when someone wants past partner type references, I still ask friendly past partners if it's cool and that they might get reached out to.  That's me, you do you, but consider it.

If you're an organizer, recognize you can't always take a dropped name at face value.  Ask questions, consider how you feel about the perspective of the person who was name dropped, consider if you care if someone was asked or not prior to being name dropped, consider if the person dropping a name understands why it matters.  Just because "A" dropped a name and that person said "Yup, talked to them for a little bit, I like'em," doesn't mean you have to "like'em."

And when asked if you vouch for someone, think about what that means for you, as well as how to be clear in your response.